Hello does anyone have information and of course pictures of the bombers and
fighters with BMW jet engines of around 1944 = 1955.

I watched an programme on TV last night where many German aircraft were
shewn which were quite remarkable even by today's standard .

It was quite fortunate for the allied forces that the war did not progress
any further than it did

The stealth bomber that they had was quite amazing even though not intended
when designed

TIA ..................Leslie


--
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In article >,
"Therefore" > wrote:

> Hello does anyone have information and of course pictures of the bombers and
> fighters with BMW jet engines of around 1944 = 1955.
>
> I watched an programme on TV last night where many German aircraft were
> shewn which were quite remarkable even by today's standard .
>
> It was quite fortunate for the allied forces that the war did not progress
> any further than it did
>
> The stealth bomber that they had was quite amazing even though not intended
> when designed

Actually, it was even MORE fortunate for Germany that the war didn't
last longer -- there was the matter of "Little Boy" and "Fat Man," who
probably would have visited Berlin or Hamburg, instead of Hiroshima and
Nagasaki.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
...
>
> Actually, it was even MORE fortunate for Germany that the war didn't
> last longer -- there was the matter of "Little Boy" and "Fat Man," who
> probably would have visited Berlin or Hamburg, instead of Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki.
>
I doubt that. The Germans did not put up a stiff resistance like the
Japanese did. The Germans did not come up with suicide planes, and never
fought to the last man, like they did in Iwo Jima. Germany fought 'our' type
of war. I was taught the sole reason for the A-bombs to hit Japan was the
believe that the US would have to fight every man woman and child in every
Japanese street, at unbelievable cost in human lives for the US armed
forces.

Ron
--
Non urinat in ventum

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Therefore" > wrote:
>
>> Hello does anyone have information and of course pictures of the bombers
>> and
>> fighters with BMW jet engines of around 1944 = 1955.
>>
>> I watched an programme on TV last night where many German aircraft were
>> shewn which were quite remarkable even by today's standard .
>>
>> It was quite fortunate for the allied forces that the war did not
>> progress
>> any further than it did
>>
>> The stealth bomber that they had was quite amazing even though not
>> intended
>> when designed
>
> Actually, it was even MORE fortunate for Germany that the war didn't
> last longer -- there was the matter of "Little Boy" and "Fat Man," who
> probably would have visited Berlin or Hamburg, instead of Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki.

While it's true that Fat Man and Little Boy were the end results of a
project started because of an apprehension that Germany was working on a
similar weapon, it was well known by D-Day that German work towards a
fission bomb had gone nowhere.
This the justification for using those bombs in Europe had vanished.
Moreover, by early 1945 conventional bombing had eradicated virtually every
target in Nazi-occupied Europe that wasn't deep under ground. IOW there was
nothing in Germany left to bomb.
Additionally, the USSR -- then allied with the west -- wanted revenge and
would have objected to being denied the conquest of Berlin.
The USSR had not been informed, officially, of the existence of the A-bomb
project and didn't _officially_ know about it until the post-war Potsdam
conference. The Soviets may have been allies, but no one in Washington
wanted them to see the USA's hole card until absolutely necessary. Those
bombs couldn't have been used in Europe without prior warning given to all
the allies.
Here's the kicker: where Japan was concerned the USA could call the shots,
because it was the only nation at war with Imperial Japan with significant
numbers of ground forces at risk in case of an invasion of the Home Islands.
But in Europe, while the USA was certainly the heavyweight among western
allies, all the Allied ground forces combined didn't equal the size of the
Soviet forces already committed. When you remember the tough time that the
western allies had up to the Rhine crossing, it's a chilling thought to
remember that we in the west were facing only 1/3 of German forces. The
other 2/3 were busy trying to hold back the Red Army.
And, as Ron has noted, German resistance to invading armies was nothing like
what had been seen and could be expected from Japan. Hitler may have called
for everyone to fight to the death, but only the SS came close to doing
that.

> --
> Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

"Therefore" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
> Hello does anyone have information and of course pictures of the bombers
> and fighters with BMW jet engines of around 1944 = 1955.
>
> I watched an programme on TV last night where many German aircraft were
> shewn which were quite remarkable even by today's standard .
>
> It was quite fortunate for the allied forces that the war did not progress
> any further than it did
>
> The stealth bomber that they had was quite amazing even though not
> intended when designed
>
> TIA ..................Leslie
>
> --
> Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
> ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
> Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access


Do you mean this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_brothers

There was nothing comparable in the world at that time and any flying wing
technology that was developed after the war was based on the experience of
the germans. Similar to early jet engines and rocket development.

--
Gruß Guybrush

Time does not allow me to respond in the manner that the subject
deserves. Still I am compelled to respond in near point form. to
several of your points.

>The Germans did not come up with suicide planes, and never
>fought to the last man, like they did in Iwo Jima.

Your language is imprecise. What is - "come up with"? Some would say
that they did. Look up Reichenberg. They came up with it, but did not
use it, operationally.

http://greyfalcon.us/Fiesler%20Fi.htm

However, they did use their Rammjaeger forces. This was arguably a
suicide mission. Quoting from the Osprey book Aviation Elite 020 -
Luftwaffe Sturmgruppen page 118.

"Oberst Herrmann's plan was to take the Sturm concept one logical step
further still. He wanted to form an all-volunteer fighter unit that
would undertake to carry out a massed attack on a USAAF heavy bomber
formation not using cannon, with ramming as a last resort, but with
the intention from the outset deliberately to ram.

As a sop to the sensibilities of the more conservatively minded in the
OKL, it was pointed out that this would not be a suicide mission.
Great stress was laid upon the fact that the pilot had every chance of
surviving a mid-air collision, as witness the many previous instances
of Sturm pilots having done just that. But as the volunteers would be
flying standard Bf 109 fighters rather than heavily armoured
Sturmbocke, the odds on survival would not be high!"

As for your contention that they never fought to the last man. I MAY
agree with this. But then I would delve further and ask why? (Or why
did the Japanese on occassion fight to the last man). And the answer I
would come up with is that the Germans were given the chance to
surrender and the Japanese were not.

Read the following to understand what I am driving at.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II#Treatment_of _POWs_and_civilians

When prisoners were needed, for their intelligence value for example,
it was NEVER difficult to obtain them. For further on this read the
John W. Dower book. It is both excellent and eye-opening.

>Germany fought 'our' type of war.

I understand what you are getting at. And in the past I may have
asserted the same thing too. But I now think that this is imprecise.
Verging on flat out wrong.

Germany did not fight "out type of war" on the Eastern Front. When
times get tough enough there is no our type of war.

>I was taught the sole reason for the A-bombs to hit Japan was the
>believe that the US would have to fight every man woman and child in every
>Japanese street, at unbelievable cost in human lives for the US armed
>forces.

With respect Ron but what you were taught was wrong. There never is a
sole reason for any decision. Truman had no compunction against using
it against Germany had resistance not collapsed and the need remained.

Back to the subject of German stealth bombers... if anyone wants to
see what one was like - take a blank napkin and draw any adolescent
fantasy you can dream up. Then you will have what they managed to
accomplish toward the end of the war. A fantasy paper only project
which does not deserve further discussion.

Waldo.

Ron schrieb:
> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Actually, it was even MORE fortunate for Germany that the war didn't
>> last longer -- there was the matter of "Little Boy" and "Fat Man," who
>> probably would have visited Berlin or Hamburg, instead of Hiroshima and
>> Nagasaki.
>>
> I doubt that. The Germans did not put up a stiff resistance like the
> Japanese did. The Germans did not come up with suicide planes,

They did, but not in reasonable numbers.
Maybe for most occasions the purpose was not suicide but the result was
the same.
And far less effective. Bachem Natter and the Rammjaeger to be mentioned.

> and never
> fought to the last man, like they did in Iwo Jima.

Oh, they sometimes did, in some occasions due to sheer abducted
motovation, sometime due to sheer chancelessness of retreat.

> Germany fought 'our' type
> of war.

No.
The US paid their toll, but their way to fight compared to any other in
all theatres of operations was most of the time rahter a good massive
gangbang. They could effort it.


> I was taught the sole reason for the A-bombs to hit Japan was the
> believe that the US would have to fight every man woman and child in every
> Japanese street, at unbelievable cost in human lives for the US armed
> forces.
>
The toy was there, no question, it had to be played with.
It hit Japan, because their culture and their outer appearance was not
as far as close to the US than the far more related german.
Even the racism...
It was the 40ies then.

> Do you mean this?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_brothers
>
> There was nothing comparable in the world at that time and any flying wing
> technology that was developed after the war was based on the experience of
> the germans. Similar to early jet engines and rocket development.
>
> --
> Gruß Guybrush

FRom the Udvar-Hazy center. The last remaining pieces of the Horten bomber
concept

Sorry guys grabbed this from the regular folder, not the resized one.
Apologies for the huge file.

Bruce


"Bruce R" > wrote in message
ng.com...

>
> FRom the Udvar-Hazy center. The last remaining pieces of the Horten
> bomber
> concept
>